Windage!!

Hi Steve n Mel
Is it possible to steer the outboard too? I recall from our previous boat it was always a very convincing manner to pull the boat in reverse in the right direction, steering the outboard.
Is a bowthruster an option? Ihave seen a man who singlehanded landed a Catalac sideways and downwind (5bft) in a busy harbour with a few thrusts of the bowthruster and some roaring of the 10hp outboard.
The next day he left in the same wind also using the bowthruster a lot but it all looked very easy and convincing.
Sometimes you see those horrible fishing-programms on discovery-channel. There are these electric outboards on the bow, could that be used as retractable bowthruster? Just a thought that comes to mind, right now.
Well, I hope that you'll get more usefull information from others who do have outboard engines.

Although we have twindiesels (2x11hp), we've had difficulties in harbours too, at 6bft.We have been blown sideways where we did not want to go to. But… with twindiesels you'll can always turn on the spot and try again.
regards Juup

Hi there,

Having owned HT “Camargue” (MkIII) for nearly 12 years with a single fixed 9.9HP high thrust long shaft outboard, I can honestly say that there weren’t many occasions when I really struggled with close quarters manoeuvring (the last was when the current owner came for his test sail and it was blowing 35 knots on the marina – isn’t that always the way!!).

Admittedly it took most of the 1st season to get comfortable with the configuration and feel of the boat under varying conditions, but thereafter it was fine.

As Soltrykknew has indicated, the real key is to get some momentum so that water is flowing past the rudders thus allowing them to take effect. This does unfortunately mean your need to work the engine hard in both forward and astern, using neutral as appropriate….but it does mean your approach is relatively fast in comparison with other sailing craft.

One thing that I would strongly recommend is that you really need an engine such as the Yamaha 9.9HP high thrust outboard because this is specifically designed for heavy displacement boats such as the HT. Just to give you an idea of the thrust available, if I was to engage reverse using a lot of rev’s I could almost stop “Camargue” instantly (there was actually one occasion when my wife was thrown over the foredeck and was left holding on to the pulpit for grim death).

Now for the bad news…….

Having sold “Camargue” we purchased “Distant Drummer”, a HT27 with a single fixed 9.9HP high thrust engine and I’m afraid to say the experience was completely different. It took us over a season to really understand why and in the end we opted to install a single diesel and twin hydraulics rather than try to address the issue.

In my view the primary reason for the massive differences between the models relates to the depth of the propeller in the water. I’m not sure if you are aware, but one of the differences between the models is the additional 4 inches that exist between the bottom of the bridgedeck and the water. In “Camargue” the bottom of the outboard mounting bracket used to just touch the water…..so the propeller was well submerged on all occasions (well below the manufactures recommendations I hasten to add).

In “Distant Drummer” this certainly wasn’t the case and often resulted in the engine cavitating in anything but the smoothest of seas. To try and correct this the previous owner had installed an ultra long shaft outboard…but because of the engine lifting configuration on the 27, the prop still wasn’t anywhere near deep enough. Given our longer term plans for “Distant Drummer” we didn’t really consider how to address this problem (it would probably involve some form of glassfibre moulding bonded to the nacelle allowing the engine to be lowered further)…so instead we invested in a single diesel and hydraulics.

I’m sorry I can’t help further, but I would like to provide you with the reassurance that once you’re engine configuration is right, and with experience, you to will be pretty happy with your close quarters ability in all but the worst conditions.

I have seem Wharram cats that had the outboard connected with the steering, using ropes and pulleys, so that when the helm was turned, the engine turned with the rudders. I always thought that this would help, but never did it to my old boat. Sula has hydralic steering, and compared to my Tangoroa, turns on a dime [ten pence?].
good luck,
steve

Jut bought two min kota 55lb trolling motors to address this same issue… also looked at all the options, but decided this would be the best $ wise. Will let you know how they fair.

Steve, no update yet.
But some thoughts to share:
I was going to install these transom mount motors on two small swim ladders. After thinking about this, hanging off the stern to set up and remove the motors, when they are most needed in rougher weather is probably not the best solution. So I’ve ordered longer shafts 62″ and pontoon mounts to replace the transom mounts, these have an opening catch so the motors can be easily removed and stowed. Have “chopped” their heads off and will mount these tiller controls on the helm station using a part original shaft so that they can be removed. For both the motors and controls I’ve ordered those waterproof cigarette lighter style plugs with a 6 AWG adapter to handle the larger wire needed. This will make the whole setup quick to install.

These motors aren’t exactly powerful (0.8hp each), but the most thrust I could get staying in the 12v range. Duel 110 pounders would give you 3.7 knots but they are at 36v, which when you consider all the electric bits and bobs needed becomes expensive and didn’t want to have the complications of duel voltage or buy expensive DC/DC converters. According to the propking spreadsheet both at full speed should push the boat at 2.9 knots (www.electricboats.co.uk/surfprop/Propking.xls)
That number is of course for calm weather so who knows up till what windage or current this will work in, but I guess it’ll be better than nothing and a damn side cheaper than twin main engines or bow thrusters. The tricky part I think is coordinating the main engine control and the two extra controls, could be fun.
It’s possible to simplify this setup by throwing away the controller and only applying full power with a simple three way switch & contractor for each. I opted to keep the controllers cause I figured they might be useful assisting the boat going to wind on a lee shore, kind of like a electric dagger board but I’m doubtful if this will work.

Now just to figure out where to put the pontoon mounts…
Parts will be arriving in a week or so, will let you know how it turns out.

Looked at that option, I wasn’t sure if a 0.8HP motor would be powerful enough, might be??? The other problem is shaft length off the bow for a bow the standard sizes for the 12v motors are way to short for the HT, not sure if the longest size 5’ will do the job either.

The total for the project is around $1300 (USD) which is close to the price of the more powerful 36v motors without all the other bits and bobs needed + setting up a 36v system i.e. much cheaper than 1 101lb 36v motor.

Transom mount 55lb maxim (digital) trolling motors x 2 $700
Waterproof Plugs & 6AWG extensions $100
wire, connectors, fuses etc. $200
5’ shafts $210
Star-board (plastic plywood) $15
Bolts etc. $10

The parts arrived, so I will be testing this weekend after I’ve finished the install.

Hi Steve (and Mel); Hope you are well. I have a couple of quick comments about this tricky situation based on experience with a 24ft Woods Strider and the HT (even with two engines). (1) Bloody docking! Close quarters manoeuvring is always the stressful part of sailing, especially where one has no choice of the berth. (2) Irrespective of engine and skill, always use lots of well placed fenders. Ball/buoy ones needed near bow due to hull shape and stern (to protect those rudders). I think its a bit of a joke when I see some boats' lack of fendering. (3) In terms of my experience, when windy, the bows will ALWAYS blow-off (irrespective of engine config) and the stern WILL hunt the wind better than the bows, and you can hold it more easily stern-to. (4) To try and fight this is pointless (assuming there's no tide to help). Therefore use this to advantage wherever poss: reverse in, even to just get an aft quarter near the dock, and get Mel to drop/lasso a line over a cleat warps, motoring against it/them as appropriate, or just to hold you still(ish). (5) When hardly moving, with fenders out = no damage – and warp alongside the adjoining boat/pontoon. (6) Contrary to what some others have said ( I think), if your engine is not steerable, its key to remember that rudders only work when water is 'significantly' flowing over them. So, what you have to do is have a longer reverse run up, in a straight line, rudders amidship. Get a lot of sternway (3, 4, 5 knots – experiment with wind conditions) – can often feel the rudders starting to pull/turn one way on their own – then quickly neutral the engine, and then steer using the rudders for the manoeuver at the end, in one smooth operation! If you keep the non-steerable engine on-power this will fight the turn created by the rudders (wait until the turn has begun in earnest for any power blips). It takes confidence to get the sternway, but I found it the only way. The thing is that rudders need that waterflow . Having only a little way thru the water means you can only manoeuvre by engines (and external forces), which with a single, central, non-steerable engine, with no warp/cleated pivot points, it's pretty impossible to do! A final thought – why not become the master of all this and post it on U tube 😉